Curse

Demesis · Jul 06, 2006, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big_L

The game is a year+ old. Yeah, people are gonna get called noobs, led in the wrong direction, and laughed at. What do you want to do? report people for being mean to you? seriously, lighten up.

YOU have CONTROL over your social environemnt in game. I have nearly 3k hours logged in this game and I have NEVER been harrassed or offended personally in game to the point of reporting someone. My ignore list is empty. I have no idea what it is you people do to make everyone else rage pm you and try to scam you all day.

if you ask me, there are WAY to many people running around with hall monitor sashes waving report warnings about whiny petty bullshit. I can understand disciplining individuals who personally offend/harrass others in ways that cannot be amended by the chat filter/ignore list. Offensive character names, persistant and personal harrassment should not be allowed in game. Otherwise, if there is a built in way to avoid the kind of treatment that SOOO offends you, then USE IT.

Okay, I give up. It seems that no amount of posting is going to get the point across. There'll always be people who post on this thread with words like "deal with it" "I dont care" "quit whining".

I guess I can tell the guy who just got called a 'Dirty Jew' in game to deal with it.

"I mean the holocaust happened in the past. Deal with it. Quit whining, your grandmother died in a concentration camp, deal with it."

"Did that guy waste 2 hours of your time sending you off in the wrong direction?" "What? you only get 2 hours of play in the weekends anyway?"---"Deal with it"

"Hey look, that guy quit after capping the elite, and we're only 1 hour into the mission. We might not make it and it's the 4th time today"---"Quit whining"

"Oh look, that person is calling you a noob on the local channel and now nobody wants to invite you into their party for a mish"---"Deal with it and switch off your local chat"

Can ANYONE see what is wrong here? Does any of these dialogues make you happy?

The term "deal with it" is a term used by people who are too lazy to help solve the problem. No offense Big_L, but I just didn't take that too well.

Eviance · Jul 06, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

*sighs* I can see where this thread is going. And I think the fact is this: They get away with it and thusly this gives them the boldness to be even ruder...

I've seen harrassment that really does go over the top. Just yesterday there was a guy pretending to be a GM and I called him out on it publicly. The fact is, it can and likely will get a lot worse if not addressed and better precautions taken.

The thing is, that people on the internet are real whether you want to think so or not... Heck I've met a ton of GW people in this town when I went to go preorder Factions! Normally I wouldn't know them from Adam, but there they are! And for newbs this can be a real threat. It is no different than going into a chat room of 13yr olds and there is a lone perv lieing about his age. I blame parents as well as the people themselves (lord knows you have your own mind no matter how you were raised!). But the internet in general has ways of protecting others from such offenses. It's easier to report with buttons of CLICK HERE TO REPORT! Or AIM has a nice little "warn" feature where so many strikes and they are out for 30mins.

It can be done, there are good and trustworthy people who could do these things. Perma Mute might be going to a bit to far with powers tho >_>

Heck some newbs don't even know they have a buddy list or ignore list... Not to mention some don't even know how to jump districts or really how to turn off chat or stop whispers.... Yeah I know they didn't read the handbook. So sue them!? Who wants to sit there reading when you can be playing!?

The point is, that we should be responsible for our own actions and many aren't or refuse to be and as far as I am concerned that makes for a very poor and uneven playing field for those just looking to play.

I shouldn't have to warn newbs about scammers and guild scams... But I also refuse to sit here and do nothing and let these poor people get taken for a ride cause they didn't know any better! It's called humanity!

LouAl · Jul 06, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

See the thing here is that you're confusing real life with the internet. This is a bad thing, because the two are not even remotely similar.

You are absoutely, 100% wrong.

I think that you are the one that is confused. The internet is a PART of real life. There are REAL PEOPLE and REAL CRIMES that are on the internet. The internet and real life are not seperate, one is a subset of the other. That is like saying that talking on the phone is not real life. Should I call up my mom, and say STFU, n00b?

That people pretend that what happens on the internet is not a part of life is just childish. The two things are very similar, it is unfortunate that you cannot see that.

Lasher Dragon · Jul 06, 2006, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Oh so because it's the internet, no one's a person, therefore everything is alright.

WRONG.

Social interaction and morality are but absract concepts. Planes of exsistance are irrelavent. Real or Virtual you have the same unspoken resposibility to behave like a decent human being.

While I agree with your sentiment, I find the concept laughable - there is nothing that is going to stop online idiocy. Parents don't watch everything their kids do, some grownups act like children in the comfort of internet anonymity, and some people are perfectly civil up until they have that freedom to act how they want to and know that nothing serious can come of it.

It sucks, but it's the way it is, and there is little or nothing anyone can do to correct it.

raven214 · Jul 06, 2006, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

I don't understand how you people are honestly bitching about people ingame. Even if other games are like this (and what does it matter if they are or aren't?) we're talking about THIS game, and THIS game has been like this from day one. You think you'd be used to it by now. If you can't take people calling you names on the internet you should just unplug your modem now.

It didn't used to be like this... or at least it has become much more prevalent since the first few months IMHO. Of course there are always going to be griefers, but it sure does seem to drown out the good lately.

The amount of insults hurled at someone when they ask a question boggles my mind. I always try to help out if I'm paying attention to local chat, but half the time it's just "W-T-S this, LTS that" ad nauseum (ignoring trade channel FTL!).

A couple days ago I couldn't believe it... I was playing in the Dragon Nest and I happened to be winning after the first round. One of my fellow participants asked me how the !@$% I got so many, and before I could even type in a response, they called out "cheater!" I figured they were just kidding around, so I laughed it off. However, they continued to call me that, even after the game had ended (I did win, btw) ... I don't take kindly to false accusations, especially in something as minuscule as a festival game, so I tried to be polite and was going to explain to them about the game (and that I had already played it several times) but they wouldn't drop it so I finally had to tell them to f--- off. I don't know if they were just kidding around, looking for a reaction, or poor sports, but it's the kind of attitude I see all too often in GW, and frankly, in society in general.

lyra_song · Jul 06, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

Theus, your attitude is EXACTLY the problem (lyra song, your attitude doesn't help much either). Should we just deal with racism because it is there and we can't/shouldn't do anything about it? Should we jsut let children get molested (in real-life or in-game) because it didn't happen to us? Should we pretend that women aren't equal to men? (I don't mean that women and men should be treated exactly the same because we are different, but different IS still equal). Should we have let Hitler go forward with his plans as long as he didn't try to come to our country? And then only if his armies came to our town or our neigborhood?

The internet does NOT have to be this way. Nor do online games.

Please dont mistake my point about common sense and avoiding trouble as being synonymous with laying down and accepting or ignoring this problem.

Rent · Jul 06, 2006, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LouAl

You are absoutely, 100% wrong.

I think that you are the one that is confused. The internet is a PART of real life. There are REAL PEOPLE and REAL CRIMES that are on the internet. The internet and real life are not seperate, one is a subset of the other. That is like saying that talking on the phone is not real life. Should I call up my mom, and say STFU, n00b?

That people pretend that what happens on the internet is not a part of life is just childish. The two things are very similar, it is unfortunate that you cannot see that.

Poor analogies: hallmark of the "angry internet citizen".

The people who ACTUALLY GET UPSET over WORDS ON THE INTERNET are just as childish as the people saying the words. Why are you letting it bother you? Are you honestly that insecure?

Ken Dei · Jul 06, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

What responsibility? Who gave it to me? No one told me about any responsibility. I didn't get a warning page when I first signed onto the internet that told me I had to act the same way online that I did offline.

Hahaha. You can't actually be typing that with a straight face can you?

This is the INTERNET. This is where teenagers THRIVE because no one knows who they really are so they can be jackasses to whoever the hell they feel like with absolutely no repercussions.

Trying to change this is trying to change the nature of every single adolescent. Good luck with that failed campaign.

And who tells you to be decent in real life? I don't see many signs all over the place saying one thing or another. I don't see billboards reading "don't spit in someone else's face."

Again it's an unspoken responsibility. Now if you've chosen to shed yourself of that responsibility, then you are part of the problem.

And yes I wrote my edit with a straight face, and I expected your counter. It's not every adolesent. I rarely behaved like a jackass when I was in my teen years in this or other games. I treated other players like....*gasp* human beings.

People only get away with the crap we let them get away with, and the weak are only weak so long as they think they are weak.

Eviance · Jul 06, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasher Dragon

While I agree with your sentiment, I find the concept laughable - there is nothing that is going to stop online idiocy. Parents don't watch everything their kids do, some grownups act like children in the comfort of internet anonymity, and some people are perfectly civil up until they have that freedom to act how they want to and know that nothing serious can come of it.

It sucks, but it's the way it is, and there is little or nothing anyone can do to correct it.

Not totally true dear.... And this is a rare case of smart vs idiot...

A guy I'm friends with bought an account, ingame from someone... He got scammed... Well he remembered the email addy and traced it... Called the house and found out it was a 9yr old that had scammed him. Told the kids dad what happened... He figured the dad would just ground the son or whatever cause the dad was just like "yeah right". But 2wks later the boy logs onto the account and messages my friend and tells him that his dad is making him give back every penny and that he's grounded for a month and then proceeds to get mad at my friend for getting him and his buddy in trouble saying "It was just a joke man!"

This a rare case of justice... And sadly it is things like this that could lead to real things in life. While this time it might be a phone call, you never know what wacko you could scam that might come hunting you down... Who here has heard of people killing their friends or themselves over stuff in a game?! It doesn't matter how stupid it is, it's real just the same and it does happen.

Internet life is very real. If people want to hide in the bubbles let them, but they are NOT invinsible. I ended up marrying the man I met online... I have friends online that are now real life friends. Heck one of my guildies is passing through and staying on Monday!

Safe guard yourself if you must but acting and treating people like they aren't human cause they are text on a screen is begging for trouble!

Ken Dei · Jul 06, 2006, 08:19 PM // 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Poor analogies: hallmark of the "angry internet citizen".

The people who ACTUALLY GET UPSET over WORDS ON THE INTERNET are just as childish as the people saying the words. Why are you letting it bother you? Are you honestly that insecure?

But this post is going to be deleted just like all my others because the mods SURE AS HELL can't have two sides to an issue!

You're again focusing on the concrete. The words aren't the issue. It's the random disrespect that the person finds offensive. The unprovoked attack on them.

But unfortunately, respect is abstract, therefore does not exsist. Right?

Feminist Terrorist · Jul 06, 2006, 08:20 PM // 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Dei

Real or Virtual you have the same unspoken resposibility to behave like a decent human being.

QFT

That's the way I act wherever I am. Always treat people the way you would want to be treated yourself. Just one of the many valuable, if hokey, things my mom taught me.

LouAl · Jul 06, 2006, 08:21 PM // 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

Poor analogies: hallmark of the "angry internet citizen".

The people who ACTUALLY GET UPSET over WORDS ON THE INTERNET are just as childish as the people saying the words. Why are you letting it bother you? Are you honestly that insecure?

But this post is going to be deleted just like all my others because the mods SURE AS HELL can't have two sides to an issue!

I am saying that the internet is as much real life as anyother 2-way communication that we have. I am not sure how you don't get that. Would you be upset if a stranger yelled at you in the street? How is that different? Because the internet is faceless? That is just a poor excuse to be a poor excuse for a person...

I am not angry. I think it is unfortunate that this is the way people think about the internet, and I am at a loss as to why people continue to think there should be difference in values based on the medium through which we communicate. It is something that does make me sad, but I am not angry.

Also, I am not insecure at all. I am worried about what my children (or other people's children) may come across because of immature attitudes on the internet, but you can be SURE AS HELL that I will make sure that my children do not think that it is ok by me if they act that way in any form of communication.

echo envitas · Jul 06, 2006, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Its nice to see everyone vocalizing this problem so intelligently... Something needs to be done, and frankly for all the good deeds we do - which we will continue to do, this problem is too big. Every little thing we do, including being nice to others and reporting/ignoring jerks does of course help. But ANET needs to address this.

Anyway just in case a DEV reads this, possible ideas include...
- In-game reporting of people
- More of a GM presence/more temporary bannings for bad behavior
- Smaller community (somehow)... maybe designated districts that you stay in (except for PVP of course). Think WOW servers. You could change this maybe 5 times, like your region. This would possibly encourage accountability for actions as people would be as anonymous.
- Easier communication would also help

And to those who are arguing this... Why?
I honestly don't see why you would argue with the fact that others are unhappy and are trying to make the game a better place.

And everything is "real life".
I work all day at my job just to be able to come home and relax...sit back and play in an online game with other living breathing humans. This is our recreation, and some's hobby. Arguing that its not real is a very immature take on reality/semantics. First of all just because something exists in a virtual structure doesn't make it any less real. Secondly, your dealing with, again, REAL people who feel as deeply as you do. Are you guys propagating the view that 'if ya can't touch it it aint real?'
Its as real as anything else is, and what else is there to say?
Anyone who thinks the game isn't real is dehumanizing other players, and is at the root of the problem.

I think people who don't see a problem haven't played other online games much. I'll say it again, just because its the 'Internet' doesn't mean it has to be like this. I think GW stands alone as having the best graphics, best gameplay, best team supporting it and the worst community. And that's a biggie.

Anyway, maybe someone at ANET will see this.

Lasher Dragon · Jul 06, 2006, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eviance

Not totally true dear.... And this is a rare case of smart vs idiot...

<snip>

This a rare case of justice... And sadly it is things like this that could lead to real things in life. While this time it might be a phone call, you never know what wacko you could scam that might come hunting you down... Who here has heard of people killing their friends or themselves over stuff in a game?! It doesn't matter how stupid it is, it's real just the same and it does happen.

Internet life is very real. If people want to hide in the bubbles let them, but they are NOT invinsible. I ended up marrying the man I met online... I have friends online that are now real life friends. Heck one of my guildies is passing through and staying on Monday!

Safe guard yourself if you must but acting and treating people like they aren't human cause they are text on a screen is begging for trouble!

I agree, in cases like this scammers can and do open themselves up to retaliation from someone that knows what they are doing. I was referring to people just being general asses online, not necessarily scammers.

LouAl · Jul 06, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Please dont mistake my point about common sense and avoiding trouble as being synonymous with laying down and accepting or ignoring this problem.

I am sorry. I had misread your post as one that was saying that it is soley up to us to "dodge" others' bad behavior and we can't do anything else about it.

You are absolutely correct that we must use common sense and aviod trouble. I was thinking of those who may not have that common sense (ie children) when I misread it. Again, sorry to lump you in with the "group."

Eet GnomeSmasher · Jul 06, 2006, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rent

The people who ACTUALLY GET UPSET over WORDS ON THE INTERNET are just as childish as the people saying the words. Why are you letting it bother you? Are you honestly that insecure?

What I dont get is how you can sit there and tell people how to feel and not to get upset yet you're clearly really worked up about all this. How about you take your own advice and not get so upset on what people's values are. They just want the game to be a better place....why the hell are you so opposed to that?

TwinRaven · Jul 06, 2006, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I recall a man who once suggested "sucker-dart" guns you could shoot at other cars when the drivers were driving like idiots...the idea being that a cop could look at the car and pull the guy over for being an A-hole.

Translate this to the online universe: a simple e-mote like the /invite emote where you can tag players for their REPUTATION title.../+charactername for a good turn, /-charactername for a scam or abusive smacktardery...to check them before trusting them a /repcharactername reveals # trustworthy/untrustworthy tags associated with the character...one untrustworthy tag no big deal...130...uh...I'm not buying from you.

Limit it to one tag from any given character/account...The reputation emote would be accessable to everyone...untrustworthy tags can be erased through good deeds...ie.e run three people from point A to point B for free...2 of them give you a /+ on your character and a /- goes away...if a person hits say 100 /- tags, banned for a day or 2. Have them cumulative...if you dont get rid of a few, the next banning is longer...automated...no judgement. Max 5 for one character in an opposing guild so as to prevent abuse (i.e. "gadzukes! this guy's good...everyone tag him and get him banned")...something like that would take little code, be easy to use and would be hard to abuse...Anyone spamming hate in a district could easily get 100 different tags and find himself banned for the day for being a smacktard...

One way or another...it would be self regulating...hold a natural consequence for the action and make people think twice before spewing hate, scamming or dropping from a group.

inscribed · Jul 06, 2006, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Whats with all these socialist attitudes? Nothing in the EULA that says I can't act like a jerk if I want to. Sure, report someone for cursing excessively or impersonating a GW representative, but people have every right to act like a jerk if they want to. Just like you have every right to block the person or not group with the person or just simply ignore the person.

Seriously, expecting everyone to act how you think they should is just as childish as some of you are claiming these jerks are. As an adult, learn to deal with people who act in a way that you don't care for.

Matsumi · Jul 06, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

All I have to say is... welcome to the "free online gaming" atmosphere really. Did you ever stop to wonder why people don't get away with everything in games that have monthly fees? Because people are being paid to monitor them, babysit, regulate, etcetera. Along with answering every /report or /bug thing sent in and have it looked at promptly. Since you're paying a monthly fee on these other games, your customer service comes with it, in good helpings. See somebody being offensive or rude one day on those games? Chances are they will not be around tomorrow.

Now, I love the fact that GW doesn't have a monthly fee, and probably wouldn't play if they did. But I also have to accept the type of random crowd that comes with a free online game as well. Yes, it's usually more of a solo attitude thing, but it still can be a lot of fun. Just have to hope you get that 1 out of 20 or more group that works great together, and has a blast.

As far as the chat thing goes... what else are you gonna do, given the above explanation of things? There are a lot of really immature kids and older people (who should know better) jerks out there that like to turn it into a yahoo chatroom. Since nobody is being paid to listen to all the complaints and reports on people, little will be heard I'm afraid. So, I guess the community just has eachother. Which... I don't know, seems like a lot of people are just too jaded already.

echo envitas · Jul 06, 2006, 09:47 PM // 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by inscribed

Whats with all these socialist attitudes? Nothing in the EULA that says I can't act like a jerk if I want to. Sure, report someone for cursing excessively or impersonating a GW representative, but people have every right to act like a jerk if they want to. Just like you have every right to block the person or not group with the person or just simply ignore the person.

Seriously, expecting everyone to act how you think they should is just as childish as some of you are claiming these jerks are. As an adult, learn to deal with people who act in a way that you don't care for.

I would say I'm shocked but I'm not, because you are representative of the GW population I made this thread about. Let me quote Demesis for a sec...

Guess I can tell the guy who just got called a 'Dirty Jew' in game to deal with it.

"I mean the holocaust happened in the past. Deal with it. Quit whining, your grandmother died in a concentration camp, deal with it."

"Did that guy waste 2 hours of your time sending you off in the wrong direction?" "What? you only get 2 hours of play in the weekends anyway?"---"Deal with it"

"Hey look, that guy quit after capping the elite, and we're only 1 hour into the mission. We might not make it and it's the 4th time today"---"Quit whining"

"Oh look, that person is calling you a noob on the local channel and now nobody wants to invite you into their party for a mish"---"Deal with it and switch off your local chat"

Inscribed, if you wish to make GW this kinda game...
All I can say is good luck in life with an attitude like that.

Oh and just like "you have every time right to act like a jerk when you want to", we have every right to make a topic in an online forum about it. That's what's great about America. and Canada. and the EU.